Quick comparison of 22.8888 and past events (22.2, 22.5, 23("HIVE" fork))

Here's a quick summary/comparison. I tried to exclude my personal judgement to deliver the fundamental "facts" by quoting a lot.

  • Maybe I will share my understanding and opinion at a different post.


1. Soft ("temporary", "reversible") or Hard Fork?


22.2: Soft

22.5: Soft

HIVE: Hard

22.8888: Soft


2. Pre-announcement before the actual action was taken?


22.2: No

22.5: No

HIVE: Yes for the fork date, No for the airdrop exclusion and where the missing airdrops would belong to

22.8888: Yes


3. Main argument (from the performers) of the fork


22.2: "freeze" the "Ninja-mined" stakes that were "promised" to be used in a certain way

22.5: "unfreeze" the legally purchased asset

HIVE: make a decentralized version of STEEM

22.8888: "freeze" accounts that were actively contributed to the potential stoppage of the STEEM blockchain


4. Decision criteria regarding stakes


22.2: based on "promise"(with no legal evidence made public so far) by a previous owner

22.5: take one's asset back

HIVE: "Accounts excluded who voted a minimum of two sockpuppets or proxied someone who voted a minimum of two and who didn't unvote before the hive announcement with more than 1k sp" (and more)

22.8888: "Accounts that proxied or directly voted to more than 10 witnesses running the version 0.23 on the Steem Blockchain during the Hardfork with an influence higher than two million Steempower." (and more)


5. Results (so far)


22.2: Steem Inc. accounts were "frozen"

22.5: Steem Inc. accounts were "unfrozen" and Steem Inc. installed its own witnesses

HIVE: creation of a "code-copy" chain that are identical to the STEEM blockchain, except that confiscating 326 individual accounts' "asset" and Steem Inc. related accounts' "asset" to the steem.dao account (allegedly, there could be a system where these accounts may get these "assets" back, but so far no date/plan/detail announced)

22.8888: temporal restriction of 8 accounts (but thanks to the pre-announcement, most accounts (except about 3) have taken actions before the actual fork so restriction is basically limited to 2-3 accounts)


Hope this helps.

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HIVE is an entirely new asset. Although to be excluded from the new asset and airdrop is awful, it cannot be compared to the actions of 22.2 or 22.888.

Also, I think 22.5 was a reaction to 22.2, but it's difficult to say Hive was a reaction to 22.5, since it appears to have been planned from before even 22.2 was implemented.

I'm sure 22.888 was a reaction to Hive, and quite sure it is entirely revenge and retribution. I am absolutely certain it was punishment because Steem is not in danger right now. I do not think anyone has the right to implement this kind of punishment.

It is obvious Steemit was involved because of their voting choices which changed as a result of 22.888 which are permanently recorded on the blockchain.

I don't see the point in continuing the battle. It will definitely harm the reputation of Steem. And for what? It seems some people want their Hive airdrop and they were promised to have a chance to get it, but they are willing to damage Steem to try and get it.

I'm still unsure of the purpose since it is not like Hive can be influenced. Sure the people affected by 22.8888 can make proposals on Steem to have their accounts unfrozen, however, this is a bizarre demand. It's difficult to understand what the goal is here.

Personally, I stopped voting for all witnesses on Steem at this point because I cannot support anyone. I would consider voting for people running 22.1 and maybe after another hardfork, but it's so difficult to trust the Steem blockchain at this point.

Also, I think 22.5 was a reaction to 22.2, but it's difficult to say Hive was a reaction to 22.5, since it appears to have been planned from before even 22.2 was implemented.

Agree with this. "Core" Hive people wanted to maintain their position from the very start by removing a new investor.


I don't see the point in continuing the battle. It will definitely harm the reputation of Steem. And for what? It seems some people want their Hive airdrop and they were promised to have a chance to get it, but they are willing to damage Steem to try and get it.

I don't want battle too... if they have done airdrop fairly I would even participated in hive as well.

But do you really believe that they are going to do the additional airdrop, except for a select few? If they were willing to do it, they could have opened SPS proposal. It's been already more than 3 weeks and it has not even started. To me, it was clear sign that they wanted to earn time so that they can milk/extract steem more.


Sure the people affected by 22.8888 can make proposals on Steem to have their accounts unfrozen, however, this is a bizarre demand.

It is bizarre - and the same goes for the hive airdrop SPS process. I think that part was to mirror what hive guys suggested.

But do you really believe that they are going to do the additional airdrop, except for a select few? If they were willing to do it, they could have opened SPS proposal. It's been already more than 3 weeks and it has not even started. To me, it was clear sign that they wanted to earn time so that they can milk/extract steem more.

I've argued all along that the airdrop should have been withheld only from the Steemit accounts.

I wish that exclude list was made public earlier when the fork was announced and people could have been removed from the list by agreeing to a simple statement like:
"I support the right to have a fork without Steemit accounts. Steem and Hive will be separate. I will participate according to Hive founding principles."

I was also hoping it wouldn't take so long, but I guess they have other priorities. In the meantime, I think people who want it should just behave regularly and kindly on Hive. Even though there is a low chance they will get anything in my opinion. Personally I will support it for everyone who agrees to behave on Hive.

It is bizarre - and the same goes for the hive airdrop SPS process. I think that part was to mirror what hive guys suggested.

I agree both are bizarre. It was a centralized decision on Hive. Two wrongs don't make a right, but then again, what goes around comes around.


Although I've personally changed my posting style on Steem a little, my rewards have dropped accordingly. I do think milking Steem presents a problem, especially for people who left under very nasty terms--those who did more than just pick a side and continue to cause problems. I think this should have been avoided from the start.

I really appreciate your reply. If only things went in this way... we would have focused on developing both chains.

Your sentiment generally echos mine. If the hive witnesses had taken some other measures i think a lot more of us (including myself) would have migrated over. Thanks for sharing this.

more than 3 weeks

The Hive Hardfork took place on 20 March. I understand in blockchain time goes fast. But this is literally only 2 weeks 1 day and 23 hours ago.

I am happy to read the comments with sanity and coming from people with clear mind and objectivity here. It feels like you pushed away even more people from Steem then already moved out with Hive.

It is so weird to combine Hive with Steem in this comparison. Steem exists. Hive exists. Steem people get attacked because they are part of a fork.

That's my fault - should have written "2", instead of "3".

if they have done airdrop fairly I would even participated in hive as well.

It was a fair airdrop. We dont want anything to do with you or your kind. Thats a completely fair stance to take.

You mean thats completely a centralized decision.

A " decentralized " blockchain that tells people: if we like you and you obey our orders we give you airdrops and allow you in. If not, you are not welcome and NO airdrop for you. But other then that WE ARE COMPLETELY DECENTRALIZED.. morons 🤦‍♂️

Screenshot_20200408-000036_Chrome.jpg

Yes. There will be an appeal process and everyone that was excluded can get theior tokens IF THE COMMUNITY DECIDES SO.

I personally will vote against any of you getting anything as is my choice on a decentralized blockchain.
Ill also make sure to attack anyone on twitter and on HIVE that votes to give any of you anything.
Because my voice matters, all out voices matter on HIVE while only 1 voice matters on STEEM.

Your voice matters? 😂😂😂😂😂 Listen up you deluded witness groupie, I dont want that shitcoin linked to my name so no thanks keep your airdrop. its going to zero anyways.

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Answered like a true loser.
Like always I schooled you and you end up getting upset and answering with insults. Its funny everytime 😂😂😂

Don't confuse things, the exclusion list was created to prevent people who supported the centralization of a blockchain from trying to make a similar move in another. No one was blocked from Hive, simply their balance was transferred to steem.dao, but they can participate in Hive if that's what they want. And, currently a first list is being created to give the funds to people who were unfairly excluded from the airdrop.

It's funny that you share screenshots about the HIVE price after the obvious intentional dumping that was done

Spiteful bullying always works.

It's better than watching him ignore a question

I guess we can just throw logic and reason out the window and act like a bunch of ten year olds with baseball bats.

Yeah, that sounds about right.

MOBSTER ETHICS FOR THE WIN.

Im not the one confusing things here, its you guys. Fix the list ? Hive is centralized thats why we have an exclusion list to begin with so stop talking about decentralization when everything happened in secret decided by a few.

And intentional dump ? Are we doing conspiracy theories now too?? 😂😂😂 People dumping their free airdrop to buy more steem is intentional Yes but not the way you are implying it.

  ·  last year Reveal Comment

What kinda Decentralization is " we dont want people like you " & " we made a decision ie. centralized decision to exculde people like you " ??

its funny that you guys scream decentralized at every chance you get but your actions says otherwise. Hypocrisy.

Well done Steemit Inc. now freeze more assets and burn them if you wanna be fair, they have already recieved the equivalent amount in Hive through the airdrop so they havent lost money they just didnt double them overnight.

They are just mad Hive is going to zero. Its not our fault thought, you choose to migrate so deal with the consequences.

Screenshot_20200408-000036_Chrome.jpg

What kinda Decentralization is " we dont want people like you " & " we made a decision ie. centralized decision to exculde people like you " ??

Yes I don't want people like you, but you're still free to use Hive. What about this is centralized?

its funny that you guys scream decentralized at every chance you get but your actions says otherwise. Hypocrisy.

No they don't. Hive is a prime example of how decentralization should work. Just because you have a fucked up view on entitlement.

They are just mad Hive is going to zero. Its not our fault thought, you choose to migrate so deal with the consequences.

Hive dumped yesterday you fucking clown.

You opinion doesnt matter, only the witnesses opinion that matters in Hive, everything is done in secrecy and for their own gain. They should be called The Führers its more suitable. Hive dumped today, yesterday and the day before you clown and it will be dumping all the way to zero. Its a Titanic 🛳

Screenshot_20200409-090849_Chrome.jpg

You opinion doesnt matter, only the witnesses opinion that matters in Hive

If you don't understand DPoS that's really not my problem. Thanks for the conversation.

If its a new asset, then why did they take the same usernames and all the contents that many users did not explocitly allow them to take on their chain? They claim its a fork from steem blockchain. I dont think they can get away with a "new asset".

Hello, a forked blockchain is considered a new asset in accordance with the taxation rules of the IRS:

The IRS classifies cryptocurrency splits as "airdrops" and as taxation events. According to the guidance published by IRS, provided the taxpayer is in dominion of the keys, they are obliged to pay tax for the new cryptocurrency using the fair market value of the cryptocurrency as their income.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(blockchain)

Therefore, it is perfectly acceptable to consider HIVE a new asset since it is considered a new asset for the purposes of taxation by the largest and most dominant tax authority in the world. I'm assuming most other countries that have a tax policy on cryptocurrencies have a similar policy.

I understand people didn't give permission. However, if one logs into Hive to do anything (the keys were not changed), this would be considered as acceptance of the airdrop.

Whether or not blockchains can be copied is irrelevant since it is public and open source and by its nature, it is constantly copied. In anycase, you remain entirely in control.

Do you have any substantial counter-argument?

Or are you just saying it's unfair because not everyone got the airdrop? I'm unaware of any legal sources saying this is not allowed or if it affects anything.

Fork (blockchain)
In blockchain, a fork is defined variously as:

"what happens when a blockchain diverges into two potential paths forward"
"a change in protocol" or
a situation that "occurs when two or more blocks have the same block height"Forks are related to the fact that different parties need to use common rules to maintain the history of the blockchain. When parties are not in agreement, alternative chains may emerge. While most forks are short-lived some are permanent. Short-lived forks are due to the difficulty of reaching fast consensus in a distributed system.

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  ·  last year Reveal Comment

it seems that your understanding is not very accurate.

For example, "you admit in your article that Steem is centralized." where did the post say something like this?

and again you skipped the quote of justin sun. but from what i see he only cares about his steem, you all only care about your profit, and no one here cares about users. and that is a sad truth.

22.8888: "freeze" accounts that were actively contributed to the potential stoppage of the STEEM blockchain

I do not see how these accounts can "actively contribute to the potential stoppage of the STEEM blockchain":

a) They do not have enough SP to overule the current witness positions.
b) They are powering down and therefore their influence on steem will diminish over time.

This softfork will only make steem look like a non-friendly place for investors. It is an obvious attempt to try to stop these accounts from selling their steem on the market which only tarnishes even more the reputation of steemit and those that are supporting it.

What happened to the promise of not freezing the funds of account holders?

So, two wrongs make a right?

Certainly not. I think he's just trying to make a point that hive witnesses are not as innocent as they are claiming. Trying to correct some misinformation and fake news thats spreading.

not necessarily.

^^

  ·  last year Reveal Comment

I don't think he'll answer that. That would be bad for him